“Thanks,” outgoing Camosun College president Sherri Bell tells us as we pack up after finishing our final interview with her as her six-year time at the college starts to come to a close. “That actually felt a little cathartic.”
As it should: Bell is heading into retirement next month after leading the college through what has obviously been a year and a half of—to be generous—turmoil and chaos as the institution navigated its way through COVID-19. The revenue that international students bring in to Camosun is no secret, and with the pandemic threatening that revenue stream in a big way, Bell’s last 18 months here are going to be remembered, it’s fair to say, as a blur of stress.
So when we sat down with her recently to look back on her time at the college, we talked about it, and we talked about the nature of relationships in post-secondary, and we talked about Indigenization at Camosun. We talked a bit about music and family, and then we said goodbye.
I looked back on the interview we did when you first got the job, I thought it would be interesting.
I should have done that [laughs].
I can hold you up to what you said. But the most interesting thing to me reading it was almost this sense of sadness because it was these two people having a chat, you seemed hopeful and optimistic about your new job… and thinking about COVID, these two people have no idea what’s going to happen. I guess in years to come, you might be remembered as the president who had to deal with COVID. That’s kind of going to be perhaps your lasting legacy more than anything.
I hadn’t really thought of that at all. I think because I was here five years before the pandemic hit, and we were very intentional in the work that we were doing toward our Strategic Plan. And then COVID hit, and it just became at first an emergency you had to deal with and as a leader of a large institution, and having had leadership positions before, you just go into that gear and bring people together and figure out where we’re going and how we get there, and then it just lasted and lasted. It shifted, of course, because there were so many times that we thought we were going to be coming out of this and we didn’t. And there was a real toll on students and employees, with mental-health issues, and all of that had to be dealt with as things evolved.
But looking back, I had five years before all of that happened, and I didn’t re-read the article but I’m sure in that time I was looking forward to making a difference for students, and that has always been my priority, and I think that we have, in the last five years, made a big headway as far as student support, student experience. We’re not perfect by any means, but that to me was something I wanted to see evolve and we have. We’ve added more supports for students, more opportunities for student involvement, and created a division that didn’t exist before, with Student Experience. So that happened all before the pandemic.
But I guess you’re right: I may be looked at as the president that got Camosun College through the pandemic, and we thought the fall would be a little bit different so we could be actually through it, but we’re not, and we’ll just keep working toward getting to a place where we learn from the pandemic. So there are things that happened that, right now, even though we’re not through it, we’re looking back at to say, ‘What can we glean from this experience that will make Camosun stronger in the future? What kinds of things have we learned that we can really pull apart and look at implementing change?’ And that’s the process we’re in right now.
And how do you feel looking back on when COVID really hit, when you had to make those decisions in March of 2020? How do you feel looking back on your decision making and how you guided people through it? Do you feel you did a good job?
I think we did. I take, of course, full responsibility for anything that happens in that kind of situation.
I remember really clearly that night when I was talking to the president of the University of Victoria at the time, and we were having a discussion about moving online. They were ready to make their decision. This was a weekend meeting of our senior people, and we made our decision together as a fairly large group, and we looked at every aspect that needed to be tackled, from health and safety issues to how do we switch to online learning, how is this going to affect students, how is it going to affect employees? We took the day, we had conversations with the union leadership and the CCSS [Camosun College Student Society], and then we announced that we would transition; we gave people a week to transition. It was a time that I will never forget, that week. The whole world was feeling it at the same time, that time in March where people were called back from vacations, because it was March break around the world, and students, I think, felt a sense of relief to not have to be on campus, but at the same time what does this mean to the rest of the semester? There was just a short period of time left, which was good, because people knew, you can get through anything for a month or two, but we had no idea how long it would go on at that time. In hindsight, yeah, it was the right decision to make, I don’t find it was a difficult decision; the logistics were, the stress on other people, I worried about that. But again, at that time, knowing, well, this is a short period of time [laughs], we can get through it.
There must have been some sleepless nights.
There definitely were sleepless nights, yeah.
When you came into this job, and looking back on that first interview, a couple things you were really excited about were the new and at the time forthcoming buildings at Interurban, the trades and health buildings. So now they’re both there, how are you feeling about those buildings?
Both of them are not only functional educational facilities, they are spectacular buildings in themselves. When I look at students wandering around those hallways, walking past classrooms, seeing students in the classrooms with either new technology or in the trades area with different equipment, it’s that bringing up a level of instruction and the opportunities for students to get together. There are spaces in those buildings that buildings that were built in the ‘70s or ‘60s, or in the case of the Young building, over 100 years ago, they don’t have. So that’s one of the things that excites me the most, is that they’re so functional for the way education is right now, and a disappointment I have is that I’m not going to be here when the Wilna Thomas building opens. When I started, over six years ago, that was something I noticed—that there weren’t spaces for large groups of students or employees to meet and gather. There weren’t enough spaces for students to collaborate and work together; you’ve got a great little coffee shop at Lansdowne, one at Interurban, but there’s no place that has that vibe where you can have people drinking coffee and studying and chatting and then a quiet place and then some collaboration space, and then a large space, so that’s what Wilna Thomas is going to offer the college when it opens, and I’m very excited about that. Buildings are buildings, but it’s what they offer for the culture of Camosun College that makes a difference. I think with the two new buildings and the one on the way, it’ll change the feeling of both campuses.
Something else that was on your mind a lot in that first interview and I can tell it is right now, looking around your office, is Indigenization and the Indigenization of the college. I think it’s safe to say in the six years you’ve been here, a lot has happened just in society at large in regards to getting these issues out. Really, there’s been quite a shift. How do you feel about how the college has done with Indigenization over the past six years?
I think that is one of the things I’m most proud of is where we have gone collectively with responses to Truth and Reconciliation. Camosun College has always been known for Indigenous education. We have a department, Eyēʔ Sqȃ’lewen, that has been in existence for over 30 years. In 2015, with the Truth and Reconciliation Calls to Action coming out, that was the right opportunity to take the college to the next level and that was a huge priority when I started, and through steering committees and collective wisdom and collaboration with Indigenous instructors and community, along with non-Indigenous people—because it’s really the responsibility of non-Indigenous people to respond to Truth and Reconciliation Calls to Action—we created 39 actions. As of the end of June, we completed the 39 actions. That doesn’t mean the work is completed, because it is not. We are looking at phase two right now of responding to not just the Calls to Action but also UNDRIP [the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples].
So, looking at where do we go next, where are the big barriers, how can we take them down, where do we move collectively together on this journey? And that work right now is just in its infancy to look at what our phase two will look like. I think one of the highlights for me has been the day that we had Conversations Day for all employees and had a focus on Truth and Reconciliation, and we had Robert Joseph come and speak to all 850 employees that were in the PISE gym. That was a pretty powerful day that I think bonded the employee group together in our Calls to Action, our commitment to Truth and Reconciliation.
For students, I think it’s been a little bit different than that. We’ve had such success with Indigenizing some curriculum areas, embedding into curriculum that, really, should look at Indigenous issues such as Criminal Justice and a lot of our Health programs, so it’s been looking at curriculum in a different way. And then there’s the little things that have happened, like very small things that didn’t take much to do but they were really significant in their symbolism. So we have elders parking now. We have steps from Na’tsa’maht leading down to where the pit cook area could be, because elders couldn’t walk that slant in October in the rain. So there were some symbolic things that have happened, but also a pretty powerful look at how we can change the lives of Indigenous students but also inform non-Indigenous students so that when they leave Camosun they have a better understanding than when they got here.
And do you feel that you played a pretty big part in leading the college through the Indigenization of the past six years?
I think that people know that that is really important to me. The leadership was shared, definitely shared, but I don’t think there’s anyone that knows me that would not know that Indigenization, Truth and Reconciliation, everybody would know that that is important [to me].
You talk about relationships a lot. You seem to be big on building relationships with staff and students; you’ve been here six years, and I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about you. That for a president is impressive, because I hear a lot of dirt. So mission accomplished there, you said that you set out to create great relationships and I feel like you did.
Thank you. That is critical. I think it’s important for the culture of Camosun. Camosun’s a pretty amazing place, with incredible people, and so it really doesn’t take much to develop those relationships. I think back to when I first started here in the summer of 2015, because people were on vacation and there weren’t a lot of people around, I was able to kind of poke my nose into all kinds of areas of the college and just talk to people, and it was clear by the end of the summer that people that work here love it here. Students that attended school here had an appreciation for what Camosun offered, not only academically but culturally. So that was easy for me to fit in and develop those relationships that are critical.
Looking back on your time at Camosun, what’s the first feeling that comes to mind when you look back on this job, without thinking too much?
The first feeling is here [points to heart]. It’s kind of in your heart. I often say now, because people know I’m leaving, that I’ll leave but Camosun will always be in my heart, because it’s that kind of place. The stories that I have been able to tell in the community about what happens here are very heartfelt. Sometimes I think that’s what my job has been: the collector of stories to share with other people within our community so that they know the asset that they have, because this is an amazing community asset. When you look at 80 percent of our students come from the south island, I think the profile of Camosun just keeps getting stronger, and stronger, and stronger, because when you look at what we do, from Indigenization, internationalization, all the way to the high-tech Camosun Innovates applications that they’ve been sharing with the community over the pandemic, I think the profile of Camosun in the community has also increased because of the things that happen here.
What do you wish you could have done better at your time here?
I think there are parts of the Strategic Plan that need to continue that were perhaps maybe not as important at the time as they are now. I wish we could have done more around the environment, climate change, sustainability. That is a cornerpost in the Strategic Plan, and we’ve done good work but I think I would’ve liked to have done more, especially right now with what’s happening in the world with climate change. I think another aspect that will likely continue when the new Strategic Plan comes out is the continued focus on equity, diversity, and inclusion. We have done really good work on that as far as our policy work and some of the research that we’ve done, and individual work that people have done, but I can see that aspect of the Strategic Plan continuing into the future because it’s so important right now.
What’s one thing you hope people will remember about your time as president?
I think that I cared and I made a difference. You can’t really make change without relationships, and when you look at life in general, what is it all about? It’s about people, and it’s about relationship building, and in an educational institution, you overlay education so that people come together, they have an experience that could enlighten them, help them grow, opens their mind, can make them more successful, but it also creates relationships that are lasting.
I always believe that learning can’t take place without an emotional connection to whatever the subject matter might be. You have to feel it. And in order to do that, you have to be surrounded by people that are inspiring to you in whatever way that works for you. So I see all the time, I’m in classrooms, I’ve got two more left to go into this term, and that’s what I see, our instructors, watching them have conversations with students, you can see the impact because they’re connected in some way, not just to the subject matter, to the bigger world, or the relationship that they’re having with their students, their teammates or classmates or instructors; it’s the kind of triangle of connection to subject matter to people and then to the instructor. It works like that so well, and those are the stories that I love to tell. And I think that’s the thing I’ll miss the most.
And there you are with the relationships again.
Yeah, you know, I got an email yesterday asking if I’d come to the school of Business to a networking event for students. I wrote her back right away, and I hadn’t even looked at my calendar, and I just said, “Yes, I’ll be there.” Then I looked at my calendar and went, “Oh, I guess I’ll have to change a few things.” But it’s that part, to see and to listen to students where you know Camosun’s made a difference. I mean, you talk to anyone in the community and people have positive stories about someone that made a difference for their child, or the institution making a difference to them or a businessperson talking about our graduates coming to their workplace, whatever it might be, and those positive stories, they’re out there.
I love saying “I’m the president of Camosun College.” That’s going to be hard, because I’m going to have to say “I’m the former president of Camosun College” [laughs]. That will still make me feel great, but it’s something that I’m so proud to have held, that title.
What do you say to Lane, the incoming president, that day where you’re both in the office here and you’re going and he’s coming in? Especially considering you’re handing over the keys during a pandemic, still everyone’s looking at international numbers on the edge of their seats, and the world’s getting better but it’s certainly not the smoothest time in the world. So what words of advice do you give Lane? What do you say to Lane when no one’s around and the doors are closed?
We’ve met once. He came over for a meeting at the ministry and we spent a couple of hours together and then we have another day planned. I’ve been putting together a document with links, the regular transition sort of document, but on Friday when we had a conversation, it was more about the culture of Camosun, because I think that not knowing the culture of a place can be detrimental to an incoming person, whether it’s a faculty member, a student, you need to know a little bit about the culture and a little bit about the place, so that was our conversation on Friday, just about the culture and what’s important to students and employees here.
When we talked for the first time for that interview, we talked about concerts. Here we are six years later, obviously the past couple years you probably haven’t been out to too many. You mentioned wanting to see John Mayer and you hadn’t yet. Have you?
Still haven’t. No. Still on my list. I’ve been a fair number of concerts and plays. It seems like a blank right now because of COVID, without doing anything, it’s hard to even remember. I know we have. I also go to a lot of musicals. We haven’t been able to to do that… I remember the last one we saw, which was called Ain’t Too Proud, it’s the story of The Temptations, it was really good. But it seems like there’s just been this huge gap. I did see some online, I saw Jim Cuddy online, and he was great—I’m a big Blue Rodeo fan. That was about the only concert I’ve seen and it wasn’t face to face [laughs]. Right in the middle of the pandemic winter, it was perfect, because we set it up, we had our speakers going, we had appetizers out, it was just my husband and I, but it felt sort of like a concert [laughs].
So what’s next for you? What do you do on the first day of your retirement?
Well, actually, the first day of my retirement, we will go to Alberta for Christmas. My daughter and her family live in Edmonton, and my parents and some family live in Calgary, so we’ll do that. And then the plan was to be away for the return of school [laughs]. I knew I didn’t want to be in Victoria, so we had planned a trip to Mexico, and we still have it planned; whether or not we’ll be able to go is another thing, we’ll just have to see how things unfold over the next few months. But after that, taking some time just to spend with family; our son and granddaughter live in Campbell River, and parents and family in other provinces. I’m not sure, we don’t have huge plans, my husband has been retired for six years, so he’s looking forward to being able to plan some things together.
Now, why don’t you want to be here when school starts?
Oh, maybe I shouldn’t have said that [laughs]. I just thought it might be hard, because I wouldn’t be coming back. I’m glad that I’m moving into retirement, it’s probably the right time. I took a course at Harvard which was for college presidents, and it was really good. One of the things that they said was typically college presidents don’t know when to retire. The lifespan should be somewhere around seven years, maximum 10 years, and they also said a lot of people wait until they know what’s next and they end up waiting too long. Look at the institution and figure out from there when you should retire. It was good advice. So what I did was I looked at when the Strategic Plan was going to be finished. I thought the pandemic would be finished. I looked at our response to Truth and Reconciliation. So I kind of looked at the timing of December and it just made sense at that time, and then that’s how I made the decision.
I keep joking with my team saying when Wilna Thomas opens, I’ll be at that coffee shop, that’s where you can find me. I’ll be wearing my Camosun College hoodie, so that’s now become a bit of a joke, “Oh, that’s where Sherri’s going to be. I don’t think we’re ever getting rid of her.” And it’s kind of fun to be able to look at the place like that. I think Lane’s going to do a great job. He’s someone I’ve known for six and a half years, so no worries there, it’s just that I love this place and it will always be a part of me.